There's no crying in politics!

[TenYearsBeOhBe]

Originally Posted by IMADreamer

Well Obama's views on Iran are that we need to use direct Presidential diplomacy without any stipulations to try and talk with Iran and resolve the issue peacefully. He also sponsored a resolution (I don't remember the number sorry) that says President Bush or anyone for that matter can not use any current resolution or act (basically the Kyl-Lie Act) to direct the war with Iraq and turn it towards a war with Iran. So basically he is saying Iraq funding can not be used to attack Iran. Obama basically wants to exhaust all diplomatic efforts to resolve Iran peacefully before doing something crazy like getting us involved in a third war while we already have two going on.

Hhmmm, honestly I have to say over the past couple of months I've become considerably more impressed with Obama's campaign. I think he'll do fine despite criticism. I must say that if any of the candidates are going to try talking to the Iranians with the resolution of peace, He's probably going to have the best chance given his background. But that's just theory, they could react in the exact opposite given they're background... But I don't personally see issue being resolved peacefully either way. For reasons you mentioned later, but I'll get to that...

Originally Posted by IMADreamer

My personal views on Iran is that Ninemdajahd (sp?) is crazy. There was an incident over the weekend that didn't get much press where Iranian boats approached a US destroyer and was saying things via radio like "you will blow up soon". They also dropped white packages in the water. It was a direct provocation by them towards us. I heard from a friend and not media so I can't confirm it that we actually fired warning shots from the Destroyer over the Iranian boats.

Yes, actually it got some press on CNN, I couldn't catch all of the segment but they kind of made it sound as though the "iboats" weren't military. I think I recall them saying though that we took no action really. I believe either just warning shots or we were about to give warning shots and then they bolted. I've kind of wondered when we were going to start seeing things like this. Especially with election time drawing so near. It could open up a very big provocation. Should something actually happen surely we would expect bush to do something? I totally agree with "you know who" being crazy, and whatever he gets he needs... You can't mess around with the UN, even Sadam learned that the hard way. And obviously you don't want to let our government know if your doing a very bad thing, like building WMD's...

Originally Posted by IMADreamer

Clearly Iran is trying to provoke us. Why I'm not sure, but I have suspicions that it's to further ruin our reputation in the Arab World and possibly there could be some deal with Russia and Iran to start a war with us. That sounds absurd but Putin and his party are hardliners and contrary to what they have sometimes showed in the past, they do not like us and still are butt hurt over the cold war.

Clearly! Though of all the arab nations they're the only one that actually stands a chance. Within their own country they don't have to ruin our image because it's always been as bad as it can get. Actually the russian relationship within Iran kind of confuses me a bit, I'm not to entirely faliliar with it other than what I know of russian relations in afgan. It just doesn't seem stable though. The Russians forcefully entered in, we sold the arabs russian guns to kick them out, and now they're friends because they both hate us? Correct me if I'm wrong on all that... But way or the other the Russian definately don't like us. Never have, never will. The problem I have with all of this is that it is perfectly set up to be something much larger than a war with us... I'd say in the past 20 years there's only been two conflicted areas that actually had the potential to cause the next WORLD WAR, and go figure they both happen to be in the middle east, with heavy ties to nations abroad. Israel, and Iran/Iraq. We've managed to pull through Iraq without sparking one because pretty much every non-arab nation agreed something had to be done at the time. But if shit hits the fan with Iran, I don't see it going smoothly at all. Like you said, Russia has got to be backing them, they don't just all of a sudden have a nuclear program without a little help, I don't think it could be any more obvious. Not to mention, if Russias ties are uncovered before they make a move them selves there's no telling how the continent will be devided politically.

I just see 2008 as being a very important year... America's getting a new pres for the first time in nearly a decade. The stock market is everything but booming, even showing signs of possible recession. Israel's still dealing with what it always has. Iran could be building nukes. China isn't to pleased with America either because they're russia's big dirty secret. Despite not hearing much about it, Russia is growing again. The world is becoming tense, and know one knows if it's all for the better or the worse...

Oh god, that was long... sorry

[nosidamde]

All this politics and whose going to "take over" the White House reminds me of a South Park episode where the kids had to vote on either a douche or turd sandwhich for their team mascott. In the end of the episode, Stan realized that it didn't matter which one he voted for, because no matter what, it's either a douche or turd sandwhich. Just like voting for any politician.

[PLUR13]

Originally Posted by nosidamde

All this politics and whose going to "take over" the White House reminds me of a South Park episode where the kids had to vote on either a douche or turd sandwhich for their team mascott. In the end of the episode, Stan realized that it didn't matter which one he voted for, because no matter what, it's either a douche or turd sandwhich. Just like voting for any politician.

Except for Ron Paul. If you are really wanting to see things change in the White House and in this country, vote for the person that's actually different than the rest. RON PAUL 2008!!!!!!

[nosidamde]

I'm sure Ron Paul is a nice guy and everything..... but I'm voting for Pedro! :D

[BlackBalt]

Originally Posted by mind4engineering

there is a 3rd option!

VOTE FOR RON PAUL. and the money leaves iraq and stays home to help OUR OWN PEOPLE

Ron Paul is actually cool, I just don't think he is electable.

BlackBalt added 2 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by nosidamde

All this politics and whose going to "take over" the White House reminds me of a South Park episode where the kids had to vote on either a douche or turd sandwhich for their team mascott. In the end of the episode, Stan realized that it didn't matter which one he voted for, because no matter what, it's either a douche or turd sandwhich. Just like voting for any politician.

I don't have much respect for any of them...they're all pretty crooked and dishonest. Stan had a good point though, lol.

[mybalt]

Originally Posted by IMADreamer

Well you have your choice it can go helping gangsters in the hood or if it's the Republicans that win it can go helping terrorist in Iraq. You have your choice. lol

Wow might I ask if you have proof?

Originally Posted by BlackBalt

Ron Paul is actually cool, I just don't think he is electable.

its a mentality like that, that will keep Ron Paul out of office...now throw those thoughts out the window and vote for Ron Paul and hope for the best. If he doesnt make the ballot, WRITE IN!

[IMADreamer]

Originally Posted by mybalt

Wow might I ask if you have proof?

You know we've given weapons and money to Iraq, Iran, Bin Laden, and other terrorist type organizations right? We were friends with Saddam at one time when the Iraq/Iran war was going on. We gave Iran weapons in exchange for hostages in the contras scandle, and it's well known we funded Bin Laden when he was an up and coming leader in the middle east to try and get him on our side and to fight against our enemies.

Proof? turn the TV on once in a while. Hell even Fox News covers that stuff, it's just common knowledge at this point. lol

IMADreamer added 4 Minutes and 9 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by mind4engineering

its a mentality like that, that will keep Ron Paul out of office...now throw those thoughts out the window and vote for Ron Paul and hope for the best. If he doesn't make the ballot, WRITE IN!

The thing with Ron Paul is that he is on the outside looking in so he can say goofy ass things that sound really good but in reality have no chance of ever being implemented. He and Huckabee both want to eliminate the IRS which sounds awesome on paper but in reality it can't work. How are we going to fund the country? Fair tax? Ok how is that fair? The burden is then put squarely on the middle class because they are the biggest consumer class and a sales tax takes a greater percentage of their income then it would the rich who can afford to be taxed more. The poor of course gets rebates and pays a significantly less portion under both Paul's and Huckabee's plan. So in typical Republican fashion the tax burden gets laid on the middle class, the poor and rich pay less then their share.

Originally Posted by IMADreamer

The thing with Ron Paul is that he is on the outside looking in so he can say goofy ass things that sound really good but in reality have no chance of ever being implemented. He and Huckabee both want to eliminate the IRS which sounds awesome on paper but in reality it can't work. How are we going to fund the country? Fair tax? Ok how is that fair? The burden is then put squarely on the middle class because they are the biggest consumer class and a sales tax takes a greater percentage of their income then it would the rich who can afford to be taxed more. The poor of course gets rebates and pays a significantly less portion under both Paul's and Huckabee's plan. So in typical Republican fashion the tax burden gets laid on the middle class, the poor and rich pay less then their share.

ah, but i dont take any politician COMPLETELY LITERALY, the way i see it is, put the radical into office for 4 years and only a few big changes will take place, BUT that will at least get the ideas of radical change in place, plant the seed, let it grow
you cant expect it all to change during the course of 1 term. its taken decades for the US to get to way it is now, it will take jsut as long, if not longer, to change it for the better

[PLUR13]

Originally Posted by mind4engineering

ah, but i dont take any politician COMPLETELY LITERALY, the way i see it is, put the radical into office for 4 years and only a few big changes will take place, BUT that will at least get the ideas of radical change in place, plant the seed, let it grow
you cant expect it all to change during the course of 1 term. its taken decades for the US to get to way it is now, it will take jsut as long, if not longer, to change it for the better

I completely agree. And even Paul himself has said in interviews that his goal if he is not elected is to lay the ground work for ppl like himself, that share his ideas, to have a chance of election in the future.