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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Parts to Turbo YOUR Car

So I just realized that there's no list to turbo... So I'll take a little bit of my time and knowledge to through on here. First I'll just list all of the parts you will need and then will get more in depth and throw my opinions in. I am not going to list the LNF swap, mainly because I don't think you guys want a quiet set up with limits right away. Remember, boost is not power, airflow is power.

Exhaust manifold
Turbocharger
Wastegate
Downpipe
Catback
Hot side charge pipe
Blow off valve/bypass valve
Intercooler
Cold side charge pipe
Throttle body
Intake Manifold
Injectors
Oil lines
Coolant lines (depending on turbo)
Oil pan tapped for oil drain
Intake
Boost controller (optional)

Now I'll explain it all.

Exhaust manifold - This is pretty self explanatory. You'll need a replacement one to bolt the turbo to. Now you'll have to decide before you buy this if you want a turbo that is internally gated or externally gated because you'll either be mounting it to this if external, or make sure to get a non gated manifold if doing internal. There are block off plates that you can throw on if you decide to get an internally gated turbo halfway through your build.

Turbocharger - Again, self explanatory but there is some research that goes with this. You're gonna need to figure out how much power you want and where you want it.

- Small turbo's spool fast and still have potential for a good power increase, but will drop out of their efficiency very quickly. Examples are K04 from SS/TC or a 16g. These are the high torque @ low RPM turbo's.

- Medium turbo's spool a little later but have great potential on a 4 cylinder. Odds are that you'll never drop out of efficiency range unless you boost way too much for the engine and blow it haha. Power and torque will usually be more linear depending on the set up. Examples are Borg Warner S25x series that ZZP sells. I made 348whp/296wtq on 12psi on my S252 on E85.

- Big turbo's are not necessary unless you are drag racing and building the motor for a lot of power. Drive-ability goes down due to the motor bogging down more at low RPM's. Garret and Precision make these. Trust me, you don't want a big turbo.

Journal bearings vs Ball bearings
-Journal bearings are not going to spool as fast as a ball bearing set up, which is the reason ball bearings are much more expensive. Most turbo's will have the option of doing either set up if you buy directly from the manufacturer. A lot of times, you're not going to notice a difference on a DD or unless you are hooking it up to a meter that shows how fast you spool.

Wastegate - This is what controls your boost. There are two kinds, internal and external. An internal wastegate is hooked directly up to your turbo with a shaft connected to the hot side compressor housing. An external wastegate is hooked to your exhaust manifold with an external pipe that either runs right out of the wastegate to the atmosphere or back into the exhaust. There is a vacuum line that is hooked to the wastegate and there is a spring inside that has a certain PSI rating. Once the turbine spins to a certain amount of boost, the wastegate opens and starts letting off the excess boost.

Downpipe - Another self explanatory piece. This is hooked right up to the compressor housing of the turbo. A 3" downpipe is going to give you the best flow from the turbo, thus allowing more power.

Catback - Same thing with the downpipe, the bigger, the better. A true 3" is going to be your best bet. 2.5" can be done, but why sell yourself short?

Hot side charge pipe - This is going to be where your blow off valve or bypass valve will be mounted. An ideal piping size for this is 2-2.5". Remember, airflow is power, not boost. Therefore, bigger piping = less boost, more power.

Blow off valve/bypass valve - This is a big decision to make and it depends on how you want to run your whole intake track. Having a blow off valve will require a MAF relocate to be AFTER the intercooler and before the throttle body instead of on the intake. Blow off valves release the excess boost back into the atmosphere after you let off the throttle. A bypass valve releases the air back into the intake track once you let off the throttle and do not require the MAF to be after the intercooler. Some blow off valves come with a kit to also recirculate it to make it become a bypass valve.

Intercooler - Another self explanatory piece. This cools the hot air coming from the turbo to go into combustion. The cooler the IAT's (Intake air temps), the more power to be had. Although, a big intercooler is not always the way to go. A Treadstone TR8 will be more than enough for power levels up to 450.

Cold side charge pipe - This goes from the intercooler to the throttle body. Again, self explanatory for the function. If you are to run a BOV, you'll need to weld a MAF bung on here between 12" and 24" away from the throttle body.

Throttle body - The bigger the throttle body, the more air and throttle response you'll get. The LSJ throttle body is a good replacement, but will either need a different manifold or an adapter plate made. The 2.4 throttle body will still be good if you're a 2.2.

Intake manifold - There are a couple different choices for this. TTR and Hahn make a log style manifold that will either hold any throttle body that you specify when buying. ZZP sells an LNF style manifold with the throttle body on top. I think the log style would be best as it allows for more airflow and no modification is needed for it to fit.

Injectors - To run more air through the engine, more fuel is needed. At least 60lb injectors are a good idea so you know you're not pushing the limits. This also allows you to run E85 and get even more power.

Oil lines - You'll need a feed and a drain. The feed goes from one of your oil galleys to the top of the turbo and the drain goes from the bottom and runs to the oil pan.

Coolant lines - If your choice of turbo asks for coolant to run through it to cool it down, you'll want to get them in there. Typically just a T off of another coolant line and pit it through.

Intake - Choice is yours, there are multiple ways you can go through with this. SRI or CAI. It doesn't matter a whole lot due to the air getting compressed and hot during the compressor forcing it through anyways.

If anybody has any questions as to where to get these parts or what ones to actually get, just ask.

Forged L61 BW S252 Turbocharged Showoff Thread
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 07:07 PM
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Great write up!!! Ill have to remember this is here next year after my powertrain warranty expires....

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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 11:20 PM
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Very helpful! Nice write up. I think this should be pinned.
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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 10:22 AM
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S252 is 1100$ how to find cheaper than zzp kit?
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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebreatherls View Post
S252 is 1100$ how to find cheaper than zzp kit?
Its 800 w/o extended tip

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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 05:00 PM
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Is extended better?

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

Which intake manifold to get, along with TB.... 499$ for log ttr intake manifold.
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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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It will spool faster but no power benefit. I don't have an extended tip and I'm in full boost at 3k. I would do ttr mani with lsj throttle body

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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2013, 12:26 PM
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In what range should I pay for parting it or a kit?

---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------

Bankerbalt, will my engine blowup on me if I do everything you say?I Read your bio, and ur engine blew up from so much hp, was your engine built? What is balancing the engine etc? And how did you get your car to shoot flames?????????
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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2013, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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You're looking at a minimum of around probably 2.5k for all the parts. I blew it up because I drove like an idiot.

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---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 PM ----------

It wasn't built. What do you mean balancing? Being able to hold power? I was running rich for flames

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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 10:10 AM
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I actually do have some things that are some discrepancies on this. Some information isn't completely accurate, but other than these things, very good write up, and I already know there are more things that can be said in more detail so PLEASE, if you have questions about more detail on things, ask in here or the Performance Q&A section. So here is the issues I've found:

Big Turbos. Garrett and Precision (PTE), are NOT the only ones to make big turbos. Holset, Borg-Warner, Bullseye, Catepillar and Volvo also make large turbos. However, just because the turbo is larger does NOT mean it is looked down upon, as your turbo's response (spool up speed and time) is ALL dependent on the exhaust (turbine) housing size. There are turbos that have large inducers with small turbines so you can get the power of the big turbo with the spool up and reaction as a smaller turbo. Yes there is a small lag time difference, but it's almost not noticeable. Just remember, usually the bigger the turbo, the bigger the exhaust housing because it needs to flow more air to keep the top end power for the turbo at the top of the RPM band. There are more details required to help size the perfect turbo for your applications, but we won't get into that here.

Wastegates - Wastegates actually don't limit the boost, technically. They control the boost by limiting the exhaust pressure in the turbo/manifold itself. Turbo's actually spool from exhaust pressure, thus the more pressure you have in the exhaust (keep in mind pressure or boost is the measurement of restriction), the faster your turbo will spool up and the faster the turbine/compressor shaft will spin, which will cause for more air to flow through the engine (thus making more exhaust pressure). So, to keep the turbo from continuously spinning faster and faster and end up imploding, the Wastegate (WG) actually opens up at a certain pressure (by spring pressure in a diaphram), and allows for the excess exhaust gases to bypass the turbo itself thus allowing for the turbo to stop increasing the speed of the shaft to keep a safe amount of rpms, which limits the amount of boost in a way. Just don't want people to have the wrong idea of WG's, that's all.

BOV location is actually a debated subject. Most people have found that the BOV/BPV/DV should be closest to the TB, not the turbo. The reason for this is if the BOV is close to the TB, it will relieve pressure faster at the TB without having excess boost pressure trying to force it's way into the engine with the throttle plate closed. Having it closer to the TB, does cause boost hang however, but some people call that Anti-lag, where as by time the boost is completely out of the piping, you're already back on the throttle again and you don't loose any spool time.

On the other side of the spectrum, people say the BOV needs to be close to the turbo to help prevent Surging when letting off on the gas pedal. This is actually a valid argument, however, when using a turbo with an anti-surge housing, you don't need to worry about that do ya? Besides the surging issue, there really aren't any other reasons to have the BOV next to the turbo or mounted to the turbo directly (as the Borg-Warner EFR series turbos have it setup).

That's all I have, but like I said GREAT write up. If you have any questions, feel free to ask here or in the Performance Q&A thread and I'm sure Banker and I can help you out with little to no issues at all.

'09 SS/TC - Stolen
Mods - Injen CAI, CIA MAF Relocate CP's, Dejon FMIC,
Custom 3" DP, 3" Exhaust, GT3076R, Pioneer AVH-4100DVD, Hurst STS, ZZP triple pod, Autometer Cobalt boost/DPIC/WB gauges, Nitto NT05 245/40/18's, H&R Springs, 80:20 Meth Spray
Future - KSport Kontrol Pro Coilovers, 10% Tint, FMIC spray
538whp/501wtq @38 psi on meth and 93 oct on stock ish motor


06 EVO IX MR/SE - Sold
Mods - *Updated 10/6/13* AEM TRUboost EBC, 4in custom TBE, SD dual 93/e85 tune, ETS 4in Race Core FMIC, Dual Aeromotive 400lph Fuel Pumps, T4 Tubular Manifold w/ dual WG's, FP Super99HTZ DBB Turbo, GSC 274 mivec cams, ARP headstuds/rod studs, FIC 2150cc Injectors, Aeromotive FPR, Aeromotive Fuel Rail, catch can, Mini Battery Kit, Slim Coolant Fan, Kiggly Racing high pressure valve Springs/Titanium Retainers, Supertech Stainless Steel Valves, Dual VTA Tial 44mm WG's, 4g64 Stroker Manley Pistons, 155mm 2.4 LR Manley Turbo Plus I Beam Rods with ARP 625 Studs, 100mm forged non-billet Manley Crankshaft, Full H/E PNP with Port Matching, Kiggly Racing Girdle, Dual Tial 50mm BOV's, Excedy Triple Disc Carbon HD Clutch, AEM EMS

'95 Ram 2500 Diesel
Mods - 5in TBE, Boost Elbow set to 28psi, Adjusted fuel pump, Open Turbo.

Future Mods- Super Street Clutch (rated @1400ftlbs tq), 67mm turbo, 160lb valve springs, added timing, tubular exhaust manifold, larger injectors, possible 6 spd swap.


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