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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 07:01 AM Thread Starter
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2002 Grand Am No Start

anybody have any ideas on why a 2002 grant am gt with the 3.4L wont start after sitting all night. if i spray in some brake kleen it will start and then be fine for the day.

Fuel pressure is at 48-52 and unvacuumed its at 60 (new sending unit and pump anyway).

rpms are registering and my only codes are for the ac and one for the oil pressure switch. I've been searching online like mad but cant seem to find this problem.

ECT sensor is reading what seems to be correct, at least within a couple degrees.

2009 Ford Escape Limited - 3.0L, 6 speed auto, 4x4, 25/33 city/hwy imp mpg.
2017 F150 XLT-XTR - 5.0L, 4x4, 3.55's, E-locker, xtr chrome package, fx4 off-road package.
20/25 imp mpg
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 07:09 AM
Levee
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Fuel pressure seems to be where it needs to be for sure on that. Have you pulled the injectors to make sure they are actually priming the cylinders? Pull the injectors and with them out, have someone turn the key to the on position (not trying to start it) and see if the injectors cycle and spray a little fuel. It's not a very common issue, but it has been seen in the past.

If they do spray some fuel, then you have another issue, however if they don't, that could be an issue with the ECU on the car.

'09 SS/TC - Stolen
Mods - Injen CAI, CIA MAF Relocate CP's, Dejon FMIC,
Custom 3" DP, 3" Exhaust, GT3076R, Pioneer AVH-4100DVD, Hurst STS, ZZP triple pod, Autometer Cobalt boost/DPIC/WB gauges, Nitto NT05 245/40/18's, H&R Springs, 80:20 Meth Spray
Future - KSport Kontrol Pro Coilovers, 10% Tint, FMIC spray
538whp/501wtq @38 psi on meth and 93 oct on stock ish motor


06 EVO IX MR/SE - Sold
Mods - *Updated 10/6/13* AEM TRUboost EBC, 4in custom TBE, SD dual 93/e85 tune, ETS 4in Race Core FMIC, Dual Aeromotive 400lph Fuel Pumps, T4 Tubular Manifold w/ dual WG's, FP Super99HTZ DBB Turbo, GSC 274 mivec cams, ARP headstuds/rod studs, FIC 2150cc Injectors, Aeromotive FPR, Aeromotive Fuel Rail, catch can, Mini Battery Kit, Slim Coolant Fan, Kiggly Racing high pressure valve Springs/Titanium Retainers, Supertech Stainless Steel Valves, Dual VTA Tial 44mm WG's, 4g64 Stroker Manley Pistons, 155mm 2.4 LR Manley Turbo Plus I Beam Rods with ARP 625 Studs, 100mm forged non-billet Manley Crankshaft, Full H/E PNP with Port Matching, Kiggly Racing Girdle, Dual Tial 50mm BOV's, Excedy Triple Disc Carbon HD Clutch, AEM EMS

'95 Ram 2500 Diesel
Mods - 5in TBE, Boost Elbow set to 28psi, Adjusted fuel pump, Open Turbo.

Future Mods- Super Street Clutch (rated @1400ftlbs tq), 67mm turbo, 160lb valve springs, added timing, tubular exhaust manifold, larger injectors, possible 6 spd swap.


Master ASE Certified Gasoline/Diesel Technician since 2004

Speed Junkies Social Group

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Syndicate of Tuners Official Page! Up and going again as of 1/11/13

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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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actually before i saw you post i pulled out two plugs and they're dry as can be. Do you think it'd be the ecu? My dad is talking pulling off the intake and pulling the fuel rail but if it runs fine after a squirt of brake kleen then the injectors shouldnt be the problem. im leaning towards your ecu theory

---------- Post added at 12:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------

oh just to eliminate it we also tried a good coil pack and didnt help at all.

2009 Ford Escape Limited - 3.0L, 6 speed auto, 4x4, 25/33 city/hwy imp mpg.
2017 F150 XLT-XTR - 5.0L, 4x4, 3.55's, E-locker, xtr chrome package, fx4 off-road package.
20/25 imp mpg
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 08:30 AM
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A coil or ignition module would cause a misfire if it was bad.

The reason why brake clean works is because it is flammable, and once the engine is turning over on it's own, the ECU tells the injectors to open when they should and the normal engine cycle runs fine. However, before a start, the injectors should all cycle quickly to add a "prime" to the cylinders for a faster start. If they don't prime, then it won't start. The Brake clean works like Ether for a diesel.

Also, have you tried measuring the Fuel Pressure at the Rail WHILE cranking? I've seen on random occasions while cranking the vehicle the starting system draws so much power from the battery that is starting to go bad, that it takes too many volts/amps from the Fuel Pump and the Fuel pressure drops to the point it won't open the injectors, but will run fine once it is started because the alternator is putting sufficient volts/amps to run everything.

These are just suggestions, not garunteeing that's what it is, but just some other things to diagnose before jumping straight to an ECU issue.

---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 AM ----------

Also, you said it does this after sitting over night. Have you checked the battery voltage before trying to start it? I'd also have someone test your battery for possible bad cells.

'09 SS/TC - Stolen
Mods - Injen CAI, CIA MAF Relocate CP's, Dejon FMIC,
Custom 3" DP, 3" Exhaust, GT3076R, Pioneer AVH-4100DVD, Hurst STS, ZZP triple pod, Autometer Cobalt boost/DPIC/WB gauges, Nitto NT05 245/40/18's, H&R Springs, 80:20 Meth Spray
Future - KSport Kontrol Pro Coilovers, 10% Tint, FMIC spray
538whp/501wtq @38 psi on meth and 93 oct on stock ish motor


06 EVO IX MR/SE - Sold
Mods - *Updated 10/6/13* AEM TRUboost EBC, 4in custom TBE, SD dual 93/e85 tune, ETS 4in Race Core FMIC, Dual Aeromotive 400lph Fuel Pumps, T4 Tubular Manifold w/ dual WG's, FP Super99HTZ DBB Turbo, GSC 274 mivec cams, ARP headstuds/rod studs, FIC 2150cc Injectors, Aeromotive FPR, Aeromotive Fuel Rail, catch can, Mini Battery Kit, Slim Coolant Fan, Kiggly Racing high pressure valve Springs/Titanium Retainers, Supertech Stainless Steel Valves, Dual VTA Tial 44mm WG's, 4g64 Stroker Manley Pistons, 155mm 2.4 LR Manley Turbo Plus I Beam Rods with ARP 625 Studs, 100mm forged non-billet Manley Crankshaft, Full H/E PNP with Port Matching, Kiggly Racing Girdle, Dual Tial 50mm BOV's, Excedy Triple Disc Carbon HD Clutch, AEM EMS

'95 Ram 2500 Diesel
Mods - 5in TBE, Boost Elbow set to 28psi, Adjusted fuel pump, Open Turbo.

Future Mods- Super Street Clutch (rated @1400ftlbs tq), 67mm turbo, 160lb valve springs, added timing, tubular exhaust manifold, larger injectors, possible 6 spd swap.


Master ASE Certified Gasoline/Diesel Technician since 2004

Speed Junkies Social Group

Yourcobalt Official Facebook Page!

Syndicate of Tuners Official Page! Up and going again as of 1/11/13

Click here to PM me if you have questions or issues!
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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i put a load tester on the battery and it tested good, the fuel pressure sits around 50 when cranking.

2009 Ford Escape Limited - 3.0L, 6 speed auto, 4x4, 25/33 city/hwy imp mpg.
2017 F150 XLT-XTR - 5.0L, 4x4, 3.55's, E-locker, xtr chrome package, fx4 off-road package.
20/25 imp mpg
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 09:25 AM
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how many miles and have you tried running injector cleaner?

'09 SS/TC - Stolen
Mods - Injen CAI, CIA MAF Relocate CP's, Dejon FMIC,
Custom 3" DP, 3" Exhaust, GT3076R, Pioneer AVH-4100DVD, Hurst STS, ZZP triple pod, Autometer Cobalt boost/DPIC/WB gauges, Nitto NT05 245/40/18's, H&R Springs, 80:20 Meth Spray
Future - KSport Kontrol Pro Coilovers, 10% Tint, FMIC spray
538whp/501wtq @38 psi on meth and 93 oct on stock ish motor


06 EVO IX MR/SE - Sold
Mods - *Updated 10/6/13* AEM TRUboost EBC, 4in custom TBE, SD dual 93/e85 tune, ETS 4in Race Core FMIC, Dual Aeromotive 400lph Fuel Pumps, T4 Tubular Manifold w/ dual WG's, FP Super99HTZ DBB Turbo, GSC 274 mivec cams, ARP headstuds/rod studs, FIC 2150cc Injectors, Aeromotive FPR, Aeromotive Fuel Rail, catch can, Mini Battery Kit, Slim Coolant Fan, Kiggly Racing high pressure valve Springs/Titanium Retainers, Supertech Stainless Steel Valves, Dual VTA Tial 44mm WG's, 4g64 Stroker Manley Pistons, 155mm 2.4 LR Manley Turbo Plus I Beam Rods with ARP 625 Studs, 100mm forged non-billet Manley Crankshaft, Full H/E PNP with Port Matching, Kiggly Racing Girdle, Dual Tial 50mm BOV's, Excedy Triple Disc Carbon HD Clutch, AEM EMS

'95 Ram 2500 Diesel
Mods - 5in TBE, Boost Elbow set to 28psi, Adjusted fuel pump, Open Turbo.

Future Mods- Super Street Clutch (rated @1400ftlbs tq), 67mm turbo, 160lb valve springs, added timing, tubular exhaust manifold, larger injectors, possible 6 spd swap.


Master ASE Certified Gasoline/Diesel Technician since 2004

Speed Junkies Social Group

Yourcobalt Official Facebook Page!

Syndicate of Tuners Official Page! Up and going again as of 1/11/13

Click here to PM me if you have questions or issues!
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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252k km on it. havent tried injector cleaner

2009 Ford Escape Limited - 3.0L, 6 speed auto, 4x4, 25/33 city/hwy imp mpg.
2017 F150 XLT-XTR - 5.0L, 4x4, 3.55's, E-locker, xtr chrome package, fx4 off-road package.
20/25 imp mpg
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 09:43 AM
Levee
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First see if they are cycling on pre-start. If they aren't, or not all of them are, then try cleaning them (you can pull them out and let them soak in diesel or kerosene overnight. Easiest way to clean them without taking them apart.

'09 SS/TC - Stolen
Mods - Injen CAI, CIA MAF Relocate CP's, Dejon FMIC,
Custom 3" DP, 3" Exhaust, GT3076R, Pioneer AVH-4100DVD, Hurst STS, ZZP triple pod, Autometer Cobalt boost/DPIC/WB gauges, Nitto NT05 245/40/18's, H&R Springs, 80:20 Meth Spray
Future - KSport Kontrol Pro Coilovers, 10% Tint, FMIC spray
538whp/501wtq @38 psi on meth and 93 oct on stock ish motor


06 EVO IX MR/SE - Sold
Mods - *Updated 10/6/13* AEM TRUboost EBC, 4in custom TBE, SD dual 93/e85 tune, ETS 4in Race Core FMIC, Dual Aeromotive 400lph Fuel Pumps, T4 Tubular Manifold w/ dual WG's, FP Super99HTZ DBB Turbo, GSC 274 mivec cams, ARP headstuds/rod studs, FIC 2150cc Injectors, Aeromotive FPR, Aeromotive Fuel Rail, catch can, Mini Battery Kit, Slim Coolant Fan, Kiggly Racing high pressure valve Springs/Titanium Retainers, Supertech Stainless Steel Valves, Dual VTA Tial 44mm WG's, 4g64 Stroker Manley Pistons, 155mm 2.4 LR Manley Turbo Plus I Beam Rods with ARP 625 Studs, 100mm forged non-billet Manley Crankshaft, Full H/E PNP with Port Matching, Kiggly Racing Girdle, Dual Tial 50mm BOV's, Excedy Triple Disc Carbon HD Clutch, AEM EMS

'95 Ram 2500 Diesel
Mods - 5in TBE, Boost Elbow set to 28psi, Adjusted fuel pump, Open Turbo.

Future Mods- Super Street Clutch (rated @1400ftlbs tq), 67mm turbo, 160lb valve springs, added timing, tubular exhaust manifold, larger injectors, possible 6 spd swap.


Master ASE Certified Gasoline/Diesel Technician since 2004

Speed Junkies Social Group

Yourcobalt Official Facebook Page!

Syndicate of Tuners Official Page! Up and going again as of 1/11/13

Click here to PM me if you have questions or issues!
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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well looks like ill be taking off the intake :( meh its not that bad of a job

2009 Ford Escape Limited - 3.0L, 6 speed auto, 4x4, 25/33 city/hwy imp mpg.
2017 F150 XLT-XTR - 5.0L, 4x4, 3.55's, E-locker, xtr chrome package, fx4 off-road package.
20/25 imp mpg
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 09:52 AM
Levee
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Not a bad time to replace those gaskets as those are known to give out on the 3.4's.

'09 SS/TC - Stolen
Mods - Injen CAI, CIA MAF Relocate CP's, Dejon FMIC,
Custom 3" DP, 3" Exhaust, GT3076R, Pioneer AVH-4100DVD, Hurst STS, ZZP triple pod, Autometer Cobalt boost/DPIC/WB gauges, Nitto NT05 245/40/18's, H&R Springs, 80:20 Meth Spray
Future - KSport Kontrol Pro Coilovers, 10% Tint, FMIC spray
538whp/501wtq @38 psi on meth and 93 oct on stock ish motor


06 EVO IX MR/SE - Sold
Mods - *Updated 10/6/13* AEM TRUboost EBC, 4in custom TBE, SD dual 93/e85 tune, ETS 4in Race Core FMIC, Dual Aeromotive 400lph Fuel Pumps, T4 Tubular Manifold w/ dual WG's, FP Super99HTZ DBB Turbo, GSC 274 mivec cams, ARP headstuds/rod studs, FIC 2150cc Injectors, Aeromotive FPR, Aeromotive Fuel Rail, catch can, Mini Battery Kit, Slim Coolant Fan, Kiggly Racing high pressure valve Springs/Titanium Retainers, Supertech Stainless Steel Valves, Dual VTA Tial 44mm WG's, 4g64 Stroker Manley Pistons, 155mm 2.4 LR Manley Turbo Plus I Beam Rods with ARP 625 Studs, 100mm forged non-billet Manley Crankshaft, Full H/E PNP with Port Matching, Kiggly Racing Girdle, Dual Tial 50mm BOV's, Excedy Triple Disc Carbon HD Clutch, AEM EMS

'95 Ram 2500 Diesel
Mods - 5in TBE, Boost Elbow set to 28psi, Adjusted fuel pump, Open Turbo.

Future Mods- Super Street Clutch (rated @1400ftlbs tq), 67mm turbo, 160lb valve springs, added timing, tubular exhaust manifold, larger injectors, possible 6 spd swap.


Master ASE Certified Gasoline/Diesel Technician since 2004

Speed Junkies Social Group

Yourcobalt Official Facebook Page!

Syndicate of Tuners Official Page! Up and going again as of 1/11/13

Click here to PM me if you have questions or issues!
Leveecius is offline  
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