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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, I'm looking to add some power and aggression to my cobalt and really don't know where to start when it comes to the internals. I want to get bigger cams, new valves and springs, but my car is also my daily driver and I don't want to kill my gas milage too much. I'm mainly looking to rebuild the top end of my engine and leave the bottom alone (pistons, push rods, Franck) where could I start with this and who would be a good place to take it too to get a tune? Any help would be great. OH!,almost forgot, its a 2007 4door with the 2.2l and manual trans. thanks
 

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First off, welcome to the forum, nice to see a fellow LS sedan owner who wants a bit more go from his car. As for your goals, doing your internals are probably not the best place to start, unless you're planning on going FI. From what I know there are no aftermarket cams for '07+ models anyways. I'd recommend starting with simple bolt-ons from a SRI/CAI all the way down to a cat-back. However, without a tune they won't do much besides sound good, so check out HP Tuners or Trifecta. I'm sure some members will weigh in on which is better to suit your needs, though you will need to use premium gas afterwards. Let us know of your goals and budget, and we'll do our best on the advice side of the equation.
 

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How much power are you looking to make with it? Rods and pistons are the weak point in this motor once you want to make real power. Valve springs start floating around 7k but you're not going to be making any power at that rpm anyways. Cams would help but you're an 07 which has a cam sensor pressed on to the intake cam, so in order for them to work properly, you'd need new cams, valve springs, cam sensor, and then have the sensor pressed on. So you're looking at roughly 1500 for about 10-15whp and you're gonna need the supporting mods to get the best out of it which would be another 1000-1500. With all of that included, in my opinion, not worth it. So again, how much power do you want to make?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I Will just go with bolt on stuff and a tune then. I was looking to gain 10- 20hp, bigot its going to cost $2000-$4000, I might as well go fi. I don't plan on doing that. I already have a cold air in take ("autozone buffet" special) and I noticed a little difference when I paired that to my cat back (i believe an off brand magnaflow...it sounds good). I'm looking at the zzp long tube header with cat in the down pipe. A few questions I have for that would be: a) is it a "high flow" cat. and B) does it fit up to where the stock exhaust would connect to the dp? I will look into the tunes later this evening. Thanks for the input with the internals
 

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Just a word of warning, the more bolt-ons you add, the less low-end torque you'll put out (in exchange for high-end power) Torque comes from air restriction, and the less of a restriction you have, the more gutless your car will feel below a certain rpm. Keep that in mind if you do go down that route.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
What's the difference between the manual and auto trans option? I don't believe it says it a high flow cat, so if I get it with out the cat and the 2.5" dp, will I have to do anything special for back pressure that won't be there due to no cat? And can I get a tune that will allow the car to run as good or better with out the cat?
 

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Auto trans are pushed more forward and the downpipe would be too short. I, personally, would go with a shorty header. The output of your engine is not going to change much at all and its cheaper to buy a shorty header along with a direct replacement zzp downpipe. Tune can delete the code for a cat if you decide to not run one
 

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Levee
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Just a word of warning, the more bolt-ons you add, the less low-end torque you'll put out (in exchange for high-end power) Torque comes from air restriction, and the less of a restriction you have, the more gutless your car will feel below a certain rpm. Keep that in mind if you do go down that route.
This is true to an extent. The VVT, VVT-i, MiVEC and other similar Variable mecahnical timing cars you can actually tune the car to make up for the lost torque. That being said with the tune you would have to retartd the timing of the ignition map and VVT at the lower RPM/load ranges and you will actually gain back all the torque you've just lost from the upgrades. Then when you get done tuning for extra torque, once you hit the spot where HP is higher than torque (if you look at dyno graphs you will always see the HP and TQ curves cross) and it's at that point you start adding ignition timing as well as mechanical timing (to an extent) to optimize the higher flowing and better parts, thus maximizing the power you will make off those parts. So basically, retartd lower RPMS, and advance upper RPMS and you will have a WELL rounded power band, and your dyno graph curves will be really nice looking. :)

---------- Post added at 03:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

OP, as far as tunes, anyone with HPtuners will be able to tune you. It's not really all that hard to do, but it costs $100 to unlock the ECU for the tuner to tune you, then whatever it is after that is pocket money for the tuner for his time and services. Hope this helps :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I see the hptuner stuff can be quite helpful. If I got that, then I would take it to someone who has tuned before. Besides intake, full exhaust, and a tune, are there any other engine mods I can do to add a little power here and some torque there? Would fuel injectors be worth worrying about? Same with a bigger fuel pump? Or would those things be pointless without changing pistons, crank, rods, etc.?
 

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I see the hptuner stuff can be quite helpful. If I got that, then I would take it to someone who has tuned before. Besides intake, full exhaust, and a tune, are there any other engine mods I can do to add a little power here and some torque there? Would fuel injectors be worth worrying about? Same with a bigger fuel pump? Or would those things be pointless without changing pistons, crank, rods, etc.?
pretty sure injectors and fuel pump are ok you wont be over 200whp, intake manifold and throttle body, if your going with cams and plan on running over 7000rpm get neutal balance shafts and stronger valve springs, maybe meth not sure how it effects n/a motors compared to FI engines
 

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You could also do the 2.4 intake mani and throttle body but youd need the tune prior to starting the car for those.

---------- Post added at 04:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 PM ----------

He doesn't need meth, he doesn't need a fuel pump, he shouldn't waste his money on cams/springs. Dont even worry about neutral balance shafts as that is more of a hassle than you want.
 

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I'd get the 2.4 intake manny, 2.4 TB, the header/DP combo...and spray it with a 50 or 75 shot and tune it.

Would be faster than a head/cams car anyways.
 

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Levee
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You don't need to worry about the fuel system, being NA with full bolt ons and a tune you won't come close to maxing out your fuel. Honestly, there really isn't much more you can upgrade on the 2.2 without doing internals.

Yes HPtuners is helpful to have but no sense in paying $500+ for a program to which you will only have for your car. It's not even worth it, especially if you don't know what you're doing. If you try to tune the car and don't know what you're doing you will blow it up. When it comes to tuning there are a lot of things you need to keep your eye on and a lot of different adjustments that need to be made to a few different tables at the same time to correct one problem. I'd say I would find someone with HPTuners that knows how to tune, and have them tune your car. I've had some friends try to tune their cars and when it wasn't doing what they wanted and felt worse than before, they brought it to me and I fixed their tune and told them they were actually damaging the motor running it the way they tuned it. Tuning is something that should be done by someone who either knows what they are doing, or someone that has money to waste if they are experimenting on their cars just in case something breaks they can get it fixed easily. I get a lot of people that ask me how to tune cobalts properly, and honestly, it all comes down to how much you actually know about how engines work and how to correct the problems. I can teach someone how to tune a car properly, but they need to have the will to learn as well as time, because it takes YEARS, to master tuning cars, but once you learn one, 99% of them are the same, just different programs you have to mess with to get comfortable with the tables.

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------

pretty sure injectors and fuel pump are ok you wont be over 200whp, intake manifold and throttle body, if your going with cams and plan on running over 7000rpm get neutal balance shafts and stronger valve springs, maybe meth not sure how it effects n/a motors compared to FI engines
Methanol Injection doesn't have as big of an effect on NA cars as FI, because Meth is basically an additive that allows for much cooler IAT's as well as a slower burn time (thus why people with meth can run higher timing). FI cars can usually see about a 40whp gain (depending on the tune) whereas NA cars will only see about 5-10whp max (depending on the tune). Because NA cars don't have FI stuff heating the IAT's thus don't need anything extra to help "cool" the air down.
 

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You don't need to worry about the fuel system, being NA with full bolt ons and a tune you won't come close to maxing out your fuel. Honestly, there really isn't much more you can upgrade on the 2.2 without doing internals.

Yes HPtuners is helpful to have but no sense in paying $500+ for a program to which you will only have for your car. It's not even worth it, especially if you don't know what you're doing. If you try to tune the car and don't know what you're doing you will blow it up. When it comes to tuning there are a lot of things you need to keep your eye on and a lot of different adjustments that need to be made to a few different tables at the same time to correct one problem. I'd say I would find someone with HPTuners that knows how to tune, and have them tune your car. I've had some friends try to tune their cars and when it wasn't doing what they wanted and felt worse than before, they brought it to me and I fixed their tune and told them they were actually damaging the motor running it the way they tuned it. Tuning is something that should be done by someone who either knows what they are doing, or someone that has money to waste if they are experimenting on their cars just in case something breaks they can get it fixed easily. I get a lot of people that ask me how to tune cobalts properly, and honestly, it all comes down to how much you actually know about how engines work and how to correct the problems. I can teach someone how to tune a car properly, but they need to have the will to learn as well as time, because it takes YEARS, to master tuning cars, but once you learn one, 99% of them are the same, just different programs you have to mess with to get comfortable with the tables.

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------



Methanol Injection doesn't have as big of an effect on NA cars as FI, because Meth is basically an additive that allows for much cooler IAT's as well as a slower burn time (thus why people with meth can run higher timing). FI cars can usually see about a 40whp gain (depending on the tune) whereas NA cars will only see about 5-10whp max (depending on the tune). Because NA cars don't have FI stuff heating the IAT's thus don't need anything extra to help "cool" the air down.
And that's why they pay him the big bucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'll just stick with getting the 2.4 mani, tb, and the header ad do combo. There are a couple places in toledo that tune and dyno (toledo tuners and pure tuning) but idk what they charge. I'll have to find out thank you so much for all of the info., you guys are really helpful
 

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Levee
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Most shops charge about $400 per car for a tune. Most non-shop tuners charge about $250-300 just so you know. GL to ya!
 
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