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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I recently found out that any bolt on mod is useless once you throw on a SC or TC. I thought about it and I realized I wont be happy with just bolt ons and not even 200hp. If I'm going to mod my cobalt, I'm doing it right. With that in mind, I have a few questions. I did read the TC/SC sticky but it seems extremely complicated so I need some help.

1. I haven't decided which one I'm going to purchase yet, but can my car stock handle just a TC/SC? WHat I mean by that is the actual part is really effing expensive. By the time I save up for one, I don't want to have to buy 5 other parts just to get it to work. If I buy a supercharger for instance, can my cars engine and exhaust handle it without needing to upgrade? Obviously I'll upgrade in the future, but I'd like to get the part on asap. It would be nice to be able to just buy the part / install. How about for a turbo, same question.

2. What kind of gains does an SC or TC offer? If the 2.0 SS/TC can compete with GT Mustangs with a tune, can I expect the same results?

3. Which one is generally cheaper, and why?

Thanks!
 

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turbo would give you the best bang for your back over a supercharger, there will be a lot of engine modification required for your car to be able to handle all the boost, although thinngs like your axle and tranny should be finne
 

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aight go to your local chevy dealer and drive a new camaro...i did :grin:
trust me in a round about way i answered your questions
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ok I did some research(imagine that) and I'm pretty surprised by the results. A SC shows a 40% increase to an engines power, while a TC shows 50%... daaaaaamn. Those are insane numbers.

It seems that turbos are generally cheaper, and you have to deal with constant maintenance and turbo lag.

Now I just need to know what brands are the best for both, and again, can my stock 2.2L handle either one until I can swap parts.
 

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Not sure about the brands available but your stock motor should be able to handle 7-8 pounds of boost from either a SC or TC, Although you will probably need an intercooler, fuel pressure regulator,boost controller, boost gauge, Air/Fuel Gauge,Blow off valve, Fuel injectors, maybe an upgraded fuel pump and things such as a wideband O2 sensor and related gauges and goodies and a tune to be able to make that much boost safely. I could be wrong though I'm new to cobalts but not too Turbocharging so if someone could correct me if I made a mistake somewhere it would be much appreciated =)
 

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a garrett turbo kit is the easiest way of going about it. the internals on the 2.2 are rated to be good up to about 250 hp at the crank. that being said, you will have no problems with just the turbo kit. it pushes around 220-230hp at the crank so you should still be safe. if you wanna turn the boost up more, you will need to upgrade the internals
 

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but even if the internals are good till 250hp you still have to worry about getting the right afr to it. if it runs lean as slimfast its only a matter of time before you have the engine go.... anyways the bare minimum you need the turbo, bov, wastegate, boost controller, intercooler (strongly recomended) and a wideband o2 senser to make sure its not leaning out.
 

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sorry for double post. i dont know to much about cobalts so as far as i know it could handle boost without leaning out. also ebay is your friend you'll be able to piece together what you need cheaper then buying a full turbo kit. also if you have the tools dont be affraid of doing things yourself it will save you alot of money compared to taking it to a shop.
 

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So I recently found out that any bolt on mod is useless once you throw on a SC or TC. I thought about it and I realized I wont be happy with just bolt ons and not even 200hp. If I'm going to mod my cobalt, I'm doing it right. With that in mind, I have a few questions. I did read the TC/SC sticky but it seems extremely complicated so I need some help.

1. I haven't decided which one I'm going to purchase yet, but can my car stock handle just a TC/SC? WHat I mean by that is the actual part is really effing expensive. By the time I save up for one, I don't want to have to buy 5 other parts just to get it to work. If I buy a supercharger for instance, can my cars engine and exhaust handle it without needing to upgrade? Obviously I'll upgrade in the future, but I'd like to get the part on asap. It would be nice to be able to just buy the part / install. How about for a turbo, same question.

2. What kind of gains does an SC or TC offer? If the 2.0 SS/TC can compete with GT Mustangs with a tune, can I expect the same results?

3. Which one is generally cheaper, and why?

Thanks!
I think what you really need to do is find a couple of books by the author Corky Bell. He has a pair of books (one for superchargers, one for turbochargers) that you need to read to understand more of what you're getting into.

OK, to answer your questions:

1: Yes. If you are upgrading to a stock setup for the SC/TC, then yes, your car can handle the basic amount of power from the SC/TC (just to clarify, you know you need a number of items to make the SC or TC work though, correct?) Now there are some parts right off the bat I would say you're better off to have on the car such as exhaust (make sure it's 2.5" as you'll need at least that for TC and for SC that is a good size as well)., you'll also need a tune for sure. I posted a list at the bottom of this reply that contains all the parts someone needed to do his supercharger build. There are some parts that are aftermarket and either aren't needed or have stock parts that would be cheaper second hand than the aftermarket parts.

2: SS/SC is usually about 210whp (more or less...so they are underrated). Now with a little higher displacement, the 2.2 with the SC will show the same or slightly higher numbers with a good tune on a nearly stock LSJ setup. There are always variables. If you have 200+ whp then you'll do pretty well against GT's and other cars. The newest GT's and some of the New Edge styled cars such as Cobra's and Mach 1's might still be out of your reach.

I can't comment on the factory TC from the SS/TC as I don't know much about them to begin with and secondly, I haven't seen anyone try the swap yet (I'm sure it's doable though) and I'm sure it will net pretty good numbers when done.

3: SC is generally cheaper (less maintenance, lower cost to purchase everything needed).



(Here is someone's list of parts that he used for his build for a supercharger) Obviously some are aftermarket and you don't need aftermarket to start with unless it's cheaper of course.)

Supercharger Parts List

11900248 – LSJ TB To SC Bolts (4)
12575463 – LSJ TB Gasket
12584342 – LSJ Supercharger Gasket
12594387 – LSJ IC Pump Insulator
12597855 – LSJ Intake Manifold Gasket
12597993 – LSJ Stage 2 Serpentine Belt
15247280 – LSJ Upper Radiator Hose
11516342 – LSJ Intake Manifold Mount To Block Bolts (2)
11589214 – LSJ Supercharger to Intake Manifold Bolts (4)
12345982 – Genuine GM Supercharger Oil (Qty 2) 4 oz ea))
12584369 – LSJ TB To Purge Solenoid Tube
12585150 – LSJ IC Pump Rear Bracket To Intake Manifold Mount
12586367 – LSJ IC Pump Front Bracket To Rear Bracket
12586632 – LSJ Lower Intake Manifold Mount
15075118 – LAP | L61 | L65 Coolant Reservoir Cap
15231157 – LSJ Downpipe To Cat Back Gasket
15235773 – LSJ Exhaust Manifold To Downpipe Gasket
15253932 – LSJ Power Brake Booster Vacuum Hose
22729469 – LSJ Windshield Washer Container
22732432 – LSJ Wiper Cowl To Washer Container Hose
88986255 – LSJ 8 Pin TB Connector (LAP | L61 Only 6 pin)
89046833 – IC Pump Connector
90537953 – LSJ Exhaust Manifold Heat Shield
15411879 – 2005 Cavalier Injector Wiring Harness. No cutting needed using GM Stage 2 Injectors

New Parts

ZZP Heat Exchanger
ZZP Triple Gauge Pod
OTTP SS SC Pulley Bolts
Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge
GlowShift Vacuum | Boost Gauge
AEM Wideband Air | Fuel Ratio Gauge
OTTP 3.0 Polished Pulley (For Stage 2 Hub)
M-8501-L54 Ford Racing Intercooler Pump
NGK Copper Spark Plugs (Part# LFR6A-11)


Used Parts

Eaton M62 Supercharger
GM Stage 2 Injectors (42lbs)
Stock LSJ Air Intake
Stock LSJ Tensioner
Stock LSJ Downpipe
Stock LSJ Idler Pulley
Stock LSJ Throttle Body
Stock LSJ Intake Manifold
Stock LSJ Exhaust Manifold
Stock LSJ Alternator Bracket

Standard Bolts Needed (Not GM)

MAP To Intake Manifold
M6 x 1.0 x 25 (Qty 1)

LSJ Intake Manifold Mount Bracket To Intake Manifold
M10 X 1.50 x 50 (Qty 1)

LSJ Rear IC Pump Bracket To Intake Manifold Mount
M8 X 1.25 X 25 – (Qty 2)

LSJ Front IC Pump Bracket To Rear IC Pump Bracket
M8 X 1.25 X 35 – (Qty 2)

LSJ Idler Pulley To Alternator Bracket
M8 x 1.25 x 25

LSJ Intake Manifold To Block
M6 x 1.0 X 75 (Qty 2)
M6 x 1.0 x 25 (Qty 5)

LSJ Alternator Bracket To Block
M8 X 1.25 X 130 (Qty 3)

LSJ SC Bypass Valve To SC
M8 X 1.25 X 20 (Qty 2)

LSJ Tensioner Lower To Alternator Bracket
M8 x 1.25 x 35

LSJ Tensioner Upper To Alternator Bracket
M8 X 1.25 x 40… not standard bolt though. Has to be metric hex socket bolt.

LSJ SC Reservoir Bracket To SC
M6 x 1.0 x 15 (Qty 2)

LSJ SC Reservoir To SC Reservoir Bracket
M6 x 1.0 x 15 (Qty 2)
 

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Not sure about the brands available but your stock motor should be able to handle 7-8 pounds of boost from either a SC or TC, Although you will probably need an intercooler, fuel pressure regulator,boost controller, boost gauge, Air/Fuel Gauge,Blow off valve, Fuel injectors, maybe an upgraded fuel pump and things such as a wideband O2 sensor and related gauges and goodies and a tune to be able to make that much boost safely. I could be wrong though I'm new to cobalts but not too Turbocharging so if someone could correct me if I made a mistake somewhere it would be much appreciated =)
Because PSI is different from a TC to an SC, the numbers 7-8 you listed are true, but not accurate...a TC may only be able to handle that safely, but an SC can handle 10-12 safely (maybe a little more).



a garrett turbo kit is the easiest way of going about it. the internals on the 2.2 are rated to be good up to about 250 hp at the crank. that being said, you will have no problems with just the turbo kit. it pushes around 220-230hp at the crank so you should still be safe. if you wanna turn the boost up more, you will need to upgrade the internals
but even if the internals are good till 250hp you still have to worry about getting the right afr to it. if it runs lean as slimfast its only a matter of time before you have the engine go.... anyways the bare minimum you need the turbo, bov, wastegate, boost controller, intercooler (strongly recomended) and a wideband o2 senser to make sure its not leaning out.
The Garrett is going to be very expensive compared to piecing your own kit together, but it's a good place to start to figure out everything you need. Another option for low boost/low power turbo is the 2003+ Saab 9-3 2.0T setup...you can find one from a junkyard for dirt cheap. You will probably get this setup running well with a tune and make close to the same as a stock supercharger (probably a little lower), yet you will be spending the least.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I think what you really need to do is find a couple of books by the author Corky Bell. He has a pair of books (one for superchargers, one for turbochargers) that you need to read to understand more of what you're getting into.

OK, to answer your questions:

1: Yes. If you are upgrading to a stock setup for the SC/TC, then yes, your car can handle the basic amount of power from the SC/TC (just to clarify, you know you need a number of items to make the SC or TC work though, correct?) Now there are some parts right off the bat I would say you're better off to have on the car such as exhaust (make sure it's 2.5" as you'll need at least that for TC and for SC that is a good size as well)., you'll also need a tune for sure. I posted a list at the bottom of this reply that contains all the parts someone needed to do his supercharger build. There are some parts that are aftermarket and either aren't needed or have stock parts that would be cheaper second hand than the aftermarket parts.

2: SS/SC is usually about 210whp (more or less...so they are underrated). Now with a little higher displacement, the 2.2 with the SC will show the same or slightly higher numbers with a good tune on a nearly stock LSJ setup. There are always variables. If you have 200+ whp then you'll do pretty well against GT's and other cars. The newest GT's and some of the New Edge styled cars such as Cobra's and Mach 1's might still be out of your reach.

I can't comment on the factory TC from the SS/TC as I don't know much about them to begin with and secondly, I haven't seen anyone try the swap yet (I'm sure it's doable though) and I'm sure it will net pretty good numbers when done.

3: SC is generally cheaper (less maintenance, lower cost to purchase everything needed).



(Here is someone's list of parts that he used for his build for a supercharger) Obviously some are aftermarket and you don't need aftermarket to start with unless it's cheaper of course.)

Supercharger Parts List

11900248 – LSJ TB To SC Bolts (4)
12575463 – LSJ TB Gasket
12584342 – LSJ Supercharger Gasket
12594387 – LSJ IC Pump Insulator
12597855 – LSJ Intake Manifold Gasket
12597993 – LSJ Stage 2 Serpentine Belt
15247280 – LSJ Upper Radiator Hose
11516342 – LSJ Intake Manifold Mount To Block Bolts (2)
11589214 – LSJ Supercharger to Intake Manifold Bolts (4)
12345982 – Genuine GM Supercharger Oil (Qty 2) 4 oz ea))
12584369 – LSJ TB To Purge Solenoid Tube
12585150 – LSJ IC Pump Rear Bracket To Intake Manifold Mount
12586367 – LSJ IC Pump Front Bracket To Rear Bracket
12586632 – LSJ Lower Intake Manifold Mount
15075118 – LAP | L61 | L65 Coolant Reservoir Cap
15231157 – LSJ Downpipe To Cat Back Gasket
15235773 – LSJ Exhaust Manifold To Downpipe Gasket
15253932 – LSJ Power Brake Booster Vacuum Hose
22729469 – LSJ Windshield Washer Container
22732432 – LSJ Wiper Cowl To Washer Container Hose
88986255 – LSJ 8 Pin TB Connector (LAP | L61 Only 6 pin)
89046833 – IC Pump Connector
90537953 – LSJ Exhaust Manifold Heat Shield
15411879 – 2005 Cavalier Injector Wiring Harness. No cutting needed using GM Stage 2 Injectors

New Parts

ZZP Heat Exchanger
ZZP Triple Gauge Pod
OTTP SS SC Pulley Bolts
Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge
GlowShift Vacuum | Boost Gauge
AEM Wideband Air | Fuel Ratio Gauge
OTTP 3.0 Polished Pulley (For Stage 2 Hub)
M-8501-L54 Ford Racing Intercooler Pump
NGK Copper Spark Plugs (Part# LFR6A-11)


Used Parts

Eaton M62 Supercharger
GM Stage 2 Injectors (42lbs)
Stock LSJ Air Intake
Stock LSJ Tensioner
Stock LSJ Downpipe
Stock LSJ Idler Pulley
Stock LSJ Throttle Body
Stock LSJ Intake Manifold
Stock LSJ Exhaust Manifold
Stock LSJ Alternator Bracket

Standard Bolts Needed (Not GM)

MAP To Intake Manifold
M6 x 1.0 x 25 (Qty 1)

LSJ Intake Manifold Mount Bracket To Intake Manifold
M10 X 1.50 x 50 (Qty 1)

LSJ Rear IC Pump Bracket To Intake Manifold Mount
M8 X 1.25 X 25 – (Qty 2)

LSJ Front IC Pump Bracket To Rear IC Pump Bracket
M8 X 1.25 X 35 – (Qty 2)

LSJ Idler Pulley To Alternator Bracket
M8 x 1.25 x 25

LSJ Intake Manifold To Block
M6 x 1.0 X 75 (Qty 2)
M6 x 1.0 x 25 (Qty 5)

LSJ Alternator Bracket To Block
M8 X 1.25 X 130 (Qty 3)

LSJ SC Bypass Valve To SC
M8 X 1.25 X 20 (Qty 2)

LSJ Tensioner Lower To Alternator Bracket
M8 x 1.25 x 35

LSJ Tensioner Upper To Alternator Bracket
M8 X 1.25 x 40… not standard bolt though. Has to be metric hex socket bolt.

LSJ SC Reservoir Bracket To SC
M6 x 1.0 x 15 (Qty 2)

LSJ SC Reservoir To SC Reservoir Bracket
M6 x 1.0 x 15 (Qty 2)
Holy god. I'll be honest, when everyone said the TC is a much more complex system, I didn't expect the SC part list to be that long. I think I better read those books you were talking about. Is there any way you could give me a ballpark range of how much all of that would cost for the SC? Including parts, installation, and tune? Thanks for the info BTW.
 

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Holy god. I'll be honest, when everyone said the TC is a much more complex system, I didn't expect the SC part list to be that long. I think I better read those books you were talking about. Is there any way you could give me a ballpark range of how much all of that would cost for the SC? Including parts, installation, and tune? Thanks for the info BTW.
Parts: roughly 1200$ (if you shop right and buy used) Installation: No idea! Tune: trifecta 250$
 

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What he^ said...I would say the average for parts is going to be $1500. That and the tune price are reasonable for the power. If you pay someone to install it, then you're wasting money. Not to say it's frowned upon, but I wouldn't unless I had to...it's a fun experience to install FI on a car (wish I had the funds for something like this).
 

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Holy god. I'll be honest, when everyone said the TC is a much more complex system, I didn't expect the SC part list to be that long. I think I better read those books you were talking about. Is there any way you could give me a ballpark range of how much all of that would cost for the SC? Including parts, installation, and tune? Thanks for the info BTW.
its an intimidating list for sure. but notice a lot of parts are gastets, bolts etc.
and others are parts you should be familiar with with intake, header, throttle body etc.
not saying it would be easy. i know i would need some help. but its not as bad as it looks at first glance.
and there are plenty of people out there that would be willing to help, once you show you are serious about doing either mod.
 
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