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Levee
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, any law majors in here? If so, I've got some interesting stuff I'd like to pick your brain on (being that I'm a law minor). If you are please let me know in here so we can have some fun in some friendly brain picking debates! :)

**I already know that a lot of laws are by State dictated and different, however, just some overall debates won't hurt anyone.**:bigsmile::laugh::eek:fftopic:
 

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Levee
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Discussion Starter #3
Sure that could count. Most stuff I have to debate on is civil, which could turn into criminal at some point I'm sure lol
 

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Levee
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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah, I was a business/civil minor in college (was doing online courses while attending UTI to be a mech). Well should I post up the debate and see where it takes us? I'm sure there will be others that will chime in :)
 

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I'll chime in where I can. Haven't seen the inside of a legal classroom for 6 years, but I liked it.
 

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Levee
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Discussion Starter #7
I'll chime in where I can. Haven't seen the inside of a legal classroom for 6 years, but I liked it.
Makes 2 of us! lol I'm actually thinking of picking it back up again when I go back to school for some other things.
 

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Levee
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Discussion Starter #9
Ok, I will get started with this debate and would like your input. PLEASE, feel free when you post your input to post references, and laws/statutes that back up what you are saying. I know there are some people out there who will be shocked to hear what will be said here. That being said, this is a FRIENDLY debate. Keep in mind, if someone says something that isn't right, CORRECT THEM WITH EVIDENCE, not with random words or things you've heard from others. I want HARD REFERENCED MATERIALS in this debate. So here is the topic.

Being this is a car forum, the first few topics will probably be car/traffic related, so here we go, this is one I've been seeing going on for months with some colleagues and I:

If you are the passenger of a car that is stopped for a minor traffic violation (aka not signaling properly or not coming to a full complete stop), What rights (if any) do you have as the passenger? Also, are you REQUIRED to show ID and or give your information to an officer?

Please be gentle! As I have actually been in this debate in other places, I'd like to see what you guys come up with first BEFORE I start posting, because I don't want to flood this place with knowledge just yet lol.:weird::idea:
 

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This will be interesting.. My dad has a major in crim justice. he is a retired chief from security forces in the Air Force.
Been on many many many many ride alongs and have seen some crazy shit.
First time I saw a mangled dead body when I was 9..
Talk about a traumatic experience.
 

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I believe that this is an issue that varies from state to state. In general terms I believe that if the officer has reasonable suspicion that the passenger is hiding something and they refuse that they could be charged with failure to identify. If the passenger feels that it was unlawful then they can take it to court.

The rights of the passenger are blurred. I believe that the supreme court just ruled that the passenger is termed as a seizure which means that basically they are accountable for things just as the driver is. I'll find the article to back it up but I'm pretty sure that's it.
 

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The correct answer is NO, not without probable cause and ARREST.To many of these people need to look at our laws better.*If the police pull you over as a driver with the privilege (not a right) of driviing you must show your license.Your passengers are not required to show an ID in ANY STATE in the union. They were not driving, so no licensed privilege needed.Some states have what is known as stop and Identify in those states you must give your name and possibly your address NOTHING more. In other states you are not required to give any thing, not even your name.“Stop and Identify” statutes are laws in the United States that require persons detained under certain circumstances to identify themselves to a peace officer.""In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), the Supreme Court of the United States held that such laws did not violate the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures or the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination.*The Court's opinion implied that a person detained could satisfy the requirement of the Nevada law simply by stating his name."Notice that in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada*all he is required to give was his name.The Fourth Amendment ensures that you can be secure in your papers." The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."Look at the links they are clear and concise as far as these laws are concerned.I threw in the Terry Stop laws just for your enjoyment.Some of you that gave the answer as "yes they must show an ID to the police" need to start doing some more reading and learn your rights while you still have them.Remember that a main reason we fought for our independence from King George III was to stop this type of government intrusion.

Source(s):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes*http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment04/*http://www.expertlaw.com/library/criminal/police_stops.html
 

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"In a unanimous 2009 opinion, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that the Fourth Amendment authorizes officers to frisk vehicle occupants during a traffic stop if there is reasonable suspicion to believe that the person is armed and dangerous." This case was Arizona v. Johnson (2009). It's for the officer's safety.

Source: Criminal Justice Review September 2009 vol. 34 no. 3 468-481

---------- Post added at 07:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 PM ----------

Passengers still have a right to challenge the "seizure" of the passenger themselves or their belongings on the grounds of the unconstitutionality of the "siezure."

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

You might as well give them your license anyways because if you give a false name or anything of that nature you will be charged with an obstruction of justice charge for giving said false name. They'll check your record anyways so why not give your license?
 

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Levee
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Discussion Starter #14
The correct answer is NO, not without probable cause and ARREST.To many of these people need to look at our laws better.*If the police pull you over as a driver with the privilege (not a right) of driviing you must show your license.Your passengers are not required to show an ID in ANY STATE in the union. They were not driving, so no licensed privilege needed.Some states have what is known as stop and Identify in those states you must give your name and possibly your address NOTHING more. In other states you are not required to give any thing, not even your name.“Stop and Identify” statutes are laws in the United States that require persons detained under certain circumstances to identify themselves to a peace officer.""In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), the Supreme Court of the United States held that such laws did not violate the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures or the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination.*The Court's opinion implied that a person detained could satisfy the requirement of the Nevada law simply by stating his name."Notice that in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada*all he is required to give was his name.The Fourth Amendment ensures that you can be secure in your papers." The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."Look at the links they are clear and concise as far as these laws are concerned.I threw in the Terry Stop laws just for your enjoyment.Some of you that gave the answer as "yes they must show an ID to the police" need to start doing some more reading and learn your rights while you still have them.Remember that a main reason we fought for our independence from King George III was to stop this type of government intrusion.

Source(s):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes*http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment04/*http://www.expertlaw.com/library/criminal/police_stops.html
This is good input right here, however, there are some states that you aren't even required to give a name. In some states you are only required to give a name in a public area, whereas your vehicle is NOT a public area. Also, you as a passenger can also envoke your right to SILENCE. You do NOT have to say anything. Even the small chit chat you don't have to answer. If the officer asks for your name, just stare at him. If he continues, just kindly ask if you are free to go. If he wants to pull you out of the vehicle to "pat you down", before the patting down begins, say loudly you do not consent to any searches. This means that if he is to go into your pockets for anything, he is in violation of your civil rights as you are not being charged with anything.

The Terry Stop laws (Terry stop [Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)]) is actually a HUGE part of this whole debate here tho. SCOTUS ruled that there was NO federal law requiring anyone to show identification, whereas in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), SCOTUS ruled that states may now enact such laws if they wish (only 24 have done this so far), but also require officers to have REASONABLE and ARTICULABLE suspicion of criminal involvement.

Yes if you are a passenger of the car you are "detained" with the driver, which means you have every legal means to question the validity of the stop just as the driver does, HOWEVER, this does NOT put you into the same involvement as the driver, as a passenger you may ask if you are free to leave at any given time. It is up to the officer to say yes or no. If he says yes, hop out and walk away a little bit until the officer is done and go back. No law REQUIRES that as a passenger you HAVE to stay there if the officer says you can go.

Any other input on this topic guys? :)
 
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