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Hey guys, I know I haven't been the biggest contributor to these boards, but I'm looking to turn that around, one post at a time lol

Alright, one of my new years resolutions this year was to get my racing license, and put some time at the track. Simple enough, but here's my dilemma. I've been thinking of buying a proper RWD car (BMW 330i) and modding that while using my G5 as a winter beater, or stick with Janey and dump some money into her to make her a track worthy DD. I've already put about $500 in a TWN short-shifter and an Injen CAI, but I know that that alone won't cut it. Ok, now to my actual question, is it worth it? What can I expect from an NA build, will she hold together long enough to complete a lap, and can I hope for some competitiveness? I've got an '06 G5 Base model four door with no options but the cruise control and cosmetic rear wing. I'd love to hear your advice or personal stories, tips and things to avoid. If I do this, I don't want to be stingy with the build, sacrificing some gains for a bit of cash. I'll check back here soon, thanks guys!
 

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What kind of racing do you plan on doing? Road course, drag, auto x, drift?
 

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Buy an SS or something else. Not trying to discourage and if you still want to try we will give you all the knowledge we have. But the max HP you will get is 205 at the crank, maybe a bit more with some serious coin. I got mine pretty much to the max without FI and I opted for autox because it's more about the drivers skill at lower speeds, this is were a na cobalt can shine!

Now if you go FI you will also need to do some serious upgrades to your suspension to withstand the power especially in the turns.
 

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Well Mr. Blackbalt, I do appreciate your honesty, especially coming from a Cobalt LS owner. I'm not too keen on the idea of going FI for some reasons, mainly because of the preconceived notion (unfounded perhaps) that they're finicky and unreliable, their particular taste for high octane fuel, and that I think it's silly to have to idle for a few minutes to warm the turbo, then idle again to cool it off. I actually won a mock drag race against my boss' '01 S4, in which I took off and reached the end of the block long before he even got rolling, since he needed to warm up the car before he pulled out. Makes me smile thinking about it retrospectively.

Anyways, I would greatly appreciate whatever sage advice you folks are willing to bestow on me. Can I expect any more out of the 2.4 SS/GT? Or is it basically the same deal? Handling is all fine and well, but I really don't want to be holding up traffic and getting dirty looks from the Porsche and Bimmer drivers going by, however, I do love the idea of a Sleeper car. Anyways, I'm rambling. Hit me back, thanks again!
 

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Basically the same. The only good parts of the ss na's was; one, they have the ss body and interior, two, they have forged internals. All the better to slap a turbo on :p

If you really want performance without building it you might as well trade up to an ss. If you ever are interested in building the 2.2 banker has been around the block. I've stood beside and laughed for the most part, but when it comes down to it his ride is phenomenal and it looks almost completely stock.

Keep asking questions and keep learning. You will realize the path your wish to take at some point.

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Well Mr. Blackbalt, I do appreciate your honesty, especially coming from a Cobalt LS owner. I'm not too keen on the idea of going FI for some reasons, mainly because of the preconceived notion (unfounded perhaps) that they're finicky and unreliable, their particular taste for high octane fuel, and that I think it's silly to have to idle for a few minutes to warm the turbo, then idle again to cool it off. I actually won a mock drag race against my boss' '01 S4, in which I took off and reached the end of the block long before he even got rolling, since he needed to warm up the car before he pulled out. Makes me smile thinking about it retrospectively.

Anyways, I would greatly appreciate whatever sage advice you folks are willing to bestow on me. Can I expect any more out of the 2.4 SS/GT? Or is it basically the same deal? Handling is all fine and well, but I really don't want to be holding up traffic and getting dirty looks from the Porsche and Bimmer drivers going by, however, I do love the idea of a Sleeper car. Anyways, I'm rambling. Hit me back, thanks again!

No offense... this logic makes no sense.

Any car you should warm up before you drive it, turbo, supercharger or not.

Second... the turbo cool down is only if you've been running it hard. And you will never go from full boost to turning off your car that quickly. The time you're out of boost, vacuuming, is your turbo "cooldown period". So say for instance... driving through the parking lot looking for a spot. You don't have to wait 10 minutes.... as long as your turbo isn't glowing red, you're fine.

Say you do hit 200 hp at the crank on your N/A 2.2L... you'll get slapped around on any track by anything. Autocross is a different story, but circuit racing? Good luck... all the 4 bangers in your class will be running with forced induction. You'll get walked like dog, with a broken leg, that's blind.
 

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No offense... this logic makes no sense.

Any car you should warm up before you drive it, turbo, supercharger or not.
Haha, well that was blunt. My philosophy with starting and warming up a car is very simple. Turn the key to on, wait for fuel pump to pressurize the line and the PCM to complete the self diagnostic, start the car, and drive off. I figure the car will warm up simply by driving it, taking care not to give it the beans until at least the HVAC pumps out hot air. Then again, I guess I'd take an extra precaution or two if I was running 20lbs of boost and had a heavy right foot. If my logic is flawed, please feel obliged to point it out.

Anyways, I'm not one to get easily discouraged, especially by the nay sayers. I guess I'd just have to drive that much better to keep up with the big FI boys then. Thanks for the constructive criticism iToastie, and Blackbalt for the 2.2 vs 2.4 advice!
 

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Hahah, no problem.

Have you ever driven a turbo'd car (with a tune/mods to supports it, not a stock Saab or something not meant for performance)?

If you haven't I suggest you find someone who will let you, you will instantly want one.
 

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Actually, I have. My boss' lightly modded Audi S4 is a biturbo, and I scared him half to death when he threw me the keys and told me to have fun. The car's a hoot, and maybe not the most powerful thing I've ever driven, but defiantly the most fun. But for all his praise for his car, (and some of mine, too) I have to hear about the nightmare of a high cost of ownership, maintenance, parts, insurance, reliability, etc on a daily basis. Not saying it's all the turbos fault, (I mean, it is a 12 year old German car) but those are all traits I can live without.

All this to say, based on whatever common sense I might have, I'd prefer a more linear, predictable power band and instant throttle response, rather than flooring the pedal, waiting around for a bit, then getting kicked in the back of the head by a turbo. Plus I wouldn't need exotic 94 octane+ gasoline when getting groceries or going for a movie. Then again, my experience with FI is very limited, so it probably wouldn't be too difficult to turn me to the Dark Side, so to speak :p
 

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His car has high costs because its foreign. Cobalt ss have the same basic maintenance as a base model with just a little extra since they have a sc or tc on them. If you really wanna be good at racing you will have to do one or the other.

If you have the coin you should find someone who can twincharge it. Best of both worlds with that


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Actually, I have. My boss' lightly modded Audi S4 is a biturbo, and I scared him half to death when he threw me the keys and told me to have fun. The car's a hoot, and maybe not the most powerful thing I've ever driven, but defiantly the most fun. But for all his praise for his car, (and some of mine, too) I have to hear about the nightmare of a high cost of ownership, maintenance, parts, insurance, reliability, etc on a daily basis. Not saying it's all the turbos fault, (I mean, it is a 12 year old German car) but those are all traits I can live without.

All this to say, based on whatever common sense I might have, I'd prefer a more linear, predictable power band and instant throttle response, rather than flooring the pedal, waiting around for a bit, then getting kicked in the back of the head by a turbo. Plus I wouldn't need exotic 94 octane+ gasoline when getting groceries or going for a movie. Then again, my experience with FI is very limited, so it probably wouldn't be too difficult to turn me to the Dark Side, so to speak :p
Its an Audi. There is high cost of ownership no matter what engine it has. I changed the oil on a friends A6 and I couldn't even ask to get paid since the oil and filter alone were $70.
 

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Then what you want is a supercharger, instant power ;)
No. ;)

---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 PM ----------

Its an Audi. There is high cost of ownership no matter what engine it has. I changed the oil on a friends A6 and I couldn't even ask to get paid since the oil and filter alone were $70.
EXACTLY. My rurbo'd car cost me nothing extra to maintain, and it's not the only one.

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 PM ----------

no offense... This logic makes no sense.

Any car you should warm up before you drive it, turbo, supercharger or not.

Second... The turbo cool down is only if you've been running it hard. And you will never go from full boost to turning off your car that quickly. The time you're out of boost, vacuuming, is your turbo "cooldown period". So say for instance... Driving through the parking lot looking for a spot. You don't have to wait 10 minutes.... As long as your turbo isn't glowing red, you're fine.

Say you do hit 200 hp at the crank on your n/a 2.2l... You'll get slapped around on any track by anything. Autocross is a different story, but circuit racing? Good luck... All the 4 bangers in your class will be running with forced induction. You'll get walked like dog, with a broken leg, that's blind.
^this.

---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 PM ----------

My suggestion is if you are going to get serious about tracking, buy yourself a RWD or 4WD project car. Either turbo 4-banger or V6. Depends on your budget and wether you want to put the wrench time in to make it perform, or if you'd rather buy something that is ready-to-go to the track with minimal effort and modding.

Don't spend your time adding F/I to your base model if it's your daily driver. Been there done that and it was great, for me, at the time. Ask me about it if you want.
 

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And why should dd's not get fi? Lol
 

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I sense sarcasm in that response. But just in case you really are wondering... Banker blew his up accidently. If this is your main means of transportation you could be in big trouble.
 

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And why should dd's not get fi? Lol
first off, do you have around $5k to properly go F/I on stock internals, netting around 225-230whp? If yes, then do you also have the skills to install everything without messing anything up? If also yes, do you ALSO have the downwtime for the car that you daily drive while doing all these things?

If you also want to build your engine to allow for more boost, that will be another $900ish for forged rods and pistons and more downtime/more money for install.


Or, you use that $6k+ to go and buy an older, RWD or AWD project car that you can afford to have downtime on, freshen it up and make it track ready.
 

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Well if i do this, i will be using a different motor to do all the internals before i install so no downtime there. The install of the supercharger i'm not worried about either. Money....haha! That is why it isn't done yet, but really my main concern is the tune. Having a decent baseline to get to the dyno for a good tune does scare me since it is so much money that is relying on a random variable of whether or not it is close enough to be safe. Even towing it there and tossing it on, if it is that far off it can blow immediately. I see your points, but if its done right then is there really a big concern with low boost? Again, i'm just trying to learn here since this is a project i want to do with income tax this spring as long as nothing else happens.
 
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